Unlimited Creative: Phinees Robert Shares How to Find a Unique Niche Perfect for You

In a world of copycat creatives, can you become indispensable and unmistakable to those in your field? 

In this candid conversation, Haitian-American creative force Phinees "Phinestro" Robert shares his inspiring journey of curiosity, obedience, and using his gifts to serve humanity - so that you too can find your niche in a crowded creative marketplace. 

You'll be captivated by his harrowing leaps of faith - like the time he scored a Spider-Man promo for Marvel with zero prior experience. With refreshing authenticity, he reveals the mindset shifts and practical strategies that have made him a sought-after composer, producer, and educator:

• Harnessing your multi-potentiality to bring ideas to life across diverse mediums
• Embracing opportunities that may seem insignificant but catalyze major breakthroughs 
• Developing a mindset of excellence that makes you indispensable in any environment
• Staying rooted in your calling while navigating life's pivotal personal transitions
• Leveraging creativity to uplift communities and inspire the next generation

Whether you're an artist or entrepreneur seeking to amplify your impact, Phinees' zeal for maximizing his God-given potential is contagious. His vivid storytelling and insights will reignite your passion for showing up as the unmistakable version of yourself that only you can be.

LEARN MORE ABOUT PHINEES

Visit his Website
Listen to his New Podcast "Playing it By Ear"
Follow him on Instagram
Follow him on LinkedIn

Don't Build Your Creator Lifestyle Alone. Join the Community! 

In our 360 Creator Community, you get focused encouragement, guidance, and training on how to thrive as a God-centered creator. 

Joining gives you access to our app, workshops and community conversations, so you can stop being isolated and frustrated and start enjoying creative confidence! Join today!

GodandGigs.com/membership

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

[00:00:01 - 00:03:57]
In a world full of copycats, is there a way that you could be unmistakable? Can you find a way that you could be unique and find your own lane, something that nobody else does exactly the way you do? Well, my friend, this episode is going to prove to you that it's still possible to take all of your skills, all of your God given abilities, and hone them into a craft that is unmistakably you and that helps you serve the world and gain the benefits that are meant only for you, my friend. Once you hear this interview with my good friend and brother Phineas, aka Finestro, Robert, you're going to be convinced of this as well. But give me just a moment to welcome those of you who are new to guiding gigs, and then we'll get into this fascinating, effective, and incredibly inspiring interview. Hello and welcome to our show. Thank you so much for making this podcast a part of your creative day. And if you're new to the show, you picked the perfect opportunity to join us. You see, you've joined a community of freelancers, authors, musicians, creatives, entrepreneurs, people who live at the intersection of faith, ministry and the entertainment world. But we all have a heart for ministry, a heart for God, and we want to thrive in everyday life as creatives by solving temporary creative problems with timeless spiritual principles. So you're in the right place. I hope you'll subscribe, follow us. Do all the things on the app you're using right now to make sure you stay connected. I am so glad that you decided to join us on this episode because my friend, our guest and this amazing brother is going to inspire you and help you to see your unique gifting and how you can apply it in the service of others and in the benefit to your creative career. Now, Phineas, better known as Fenestro in his social media world, is a haitian american award winning film composer and music producer. He's renowned for his diverse musical talent and creative collaborations. He's worked with such names as the Marvel Company, NBC, NASCAR, Google in several different respects. And trust me, his resume is not the most important thing or the most impressive thing. What you're going to hear is his heart for service, how his culture, his background, and his love for God have taught him how to be excellent in everywhere he shows up, whether he's working with sync, licensing an artist, or education, wherever he shows up, he's got this incredible can do spirit, and it's going to help you to be able to harness your skills, to be able to show up in any environment and be unmistakable, be unduplicatable to be able to show up and know that God is going to direct your path, but also know how to use your skills to help. People never want to hire anyone else because they can't do it the way that you can, my friend. If that inspires you or really intrigues you, then you're going to want to listen to every moment of this episode. So let me get out of the way. Let's talk with Phineas Finestro. Robert. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been a long time coming for me to get this gentleman, this amazing producer, composer, arranger, educator, and so many other areas that he's going to tell you about. I know one of the most important to him is father and husband. So, you guys, let's welcome Phineas Robert to the God and gig show. How are you doing, my friend?

[00:03:57 - 00:04:03]
Hey, y'all doing really well. I'm glad to be here finally to be in your show. Finally.

[00:04:03 - 00:04:14]
Now we say finally, even though we've only been aware of each other for the last three, maybe four months, based on our mutual friend, who I will shout out, till the cows come home, lashonda Brown.

[00:04:14 - 00:04:18]
Yeah, she's the plug. The plug of all plugs.

[00:04:18 - 00:04:57]
The plug of plugs. I think she needs to add that to her bio. I'm the plug of plugs. But, yes, we are. I am a. I think we're both members of her bootstrap biz advice club. Yeah, we absolutely got to thank her for putting us together, because she saw something that either you posted or I posted on social, and she said, you have to connect with these people. Go talk amongst yourselves. And since then, brother, I've been loving everything you're sharing. But as I learned about you, some people are learning about you for the first time. You know this is coming. You've been in media forever, so, you know you got to do that 32nd introduction to everyone and tell them everything about your life in like two sentences, which is impossible, but just for the.

[00:04:57 - 00:05:00]
People who mean, I could do it, you can do it. Okay.

[00:05:00 - 00:05:10]
There's a challenge. I love this challenge. I end up setting this up as a challenge each week. So tell people what things they want to know about you. If they don't get a chance to hear anything else the first time they meet you.

[00:05:11 - 00:06:28]
I remember Pastor Bernard said something, and many years ago, there's people who are kings and queens, right? Yeah. And these are. And there are people who are king makers and queen makers. I'm a king and queen maker in the field of music, technology, education and advocacy. When it comes to you know, with, with children who are underserved, I help with helping develop their skills in both networking, collaborating, communicating through the arts and music. And I'm very happy that I've been able to use my giftings in the music industry to pivot more into the tech industry, which includes nfts, which include hardware, softwares, and all that good stuff. And I was able to leverage those knowledge to help others, whether they're young girl, young boy, or adult, help them get to point a, to point b, to the point where they can have a sustainable career start, you know? And I'm thankful to be a king or queenmaker. So that's gonna be my foundational intro.

[00:06:28 - 00:07:13]
Can you. Can you put that next to your bio from now on? Kingmaker, yo. That is the dopest line I've ever heard in my life. Thank God for that, pastor, because that is incredible. And it does kind of immediately put, for those who may not know you, I've gotten to know you through our conversations, but already it puts all the onus on who you help. All your discussion just now about your education. I'm a teacher, too, so this immediately speaks to me. Right. So there's all these areas that it's all about the other person. So now we've got to go back to the beginnings. Where does that come from? Tell me a little bit about your heritage, your background. Was there something in the way you were brought up that made you think, hey, I'm all about helping other people?

[00:07:14 - 00:07:18]
Now we're celebrating haitian heritage month.

[00:07:18 - 00:07:21]
Yes, as we're recording. Exactly. Sak pasay, my friend.

[00:07:21 - 00:07:22]
Asian. Yeah.

[00:07:26 - 00:08:01]
I only have. Only have one other phrase. One other phrase. And my duolingo, I failed in haitian creole. Okay, so my only other phrase, this is not about me, but you brought it up. So all this time down in Miami, that where I'm recording, um, all of my friends invited me to the haitian churches. All of my. Some of my best friends are like the incredible haitian musicians from. I got to play. A chance to meet mushy Widmyer, Daniel, Felix, everybody. Like t vice. Like one. One of the guys in t vice was in my band for a long time. So trust me, I've been. This is my culture. Like, I'm adopted haitian, right?

[00:08:02 - 00:08:04]
Yeah. It doesn't matter how you look. You can be.

[00:08:04 - 00:08:06]
And my name sounds french.

[00:08:06 - 00:08:20]
Haitian is not a culture, a bloodline. It's haitian also is a way of life. It's an actual. It's an actual lifestyle. Because to be haitian, it doesn't mean white or black or brown or darker.

[00:08:20 - 00:08:21]
True.

[00:08:21 - 00:09:11]
It's an actual lifestyle of living in freedom and living with the confidence of understanding, helping a fellow man and human, human being, you know, woman, child, and man. Because we were the first to help the nations of the world develop the system of autonomy. We can be survivors of our, you know, own, you know, traumas by fighting the powers. Maybe we don't need technology to be technologically advanced. In the human resources department. We were the first human resources of the world. Haitians, you know what I'm saying? Look at the flags of, you know, of all the latin american flags, they all have a, what? Red and blue. Right? So we were the first. We were the first social workers, you know, I'm saying, and that goes right.

[00:09:11 - 00:09:25]
To what you were just saying, which is, you know, the fact that you are by nature a helper. So did that come also from your parents? Were you brought up in this kind of helping people? Did you get music out of that? Or was that something else that kind of brought that spirit?

[00:09:25 - 00:11:32]
Yeah. You know. You know what's interesting, I learned from my mother. She told me that her dad, my grandfather, was a radio dj who traveled and helped set up the radio stations in Cuba, Jamaica, and all these places. And I've yet to find out more information about him, but it's definitely in my blood because even my grandmother told me that my, I think my uncle or some relative plays in the palace, played saxophone, so played in the band. And on my dad's side, of course, my dad played guitar. My brother, my older brother, the eldest, you know, we came from a church, actually, you probably familiar, if you're familiar in Miami, but there's a big haitian church, is a baptist church called french speaking Baptist Church of Clermont, which is at the heart of Brooklyn Heights, Fort Green, right around where, you know, not far from where, you know, where they had b roll footage for the Cosby show right around the corner from Rose Perez and all those people like Spike Lee, that area. So that was the biggest haitian mega church there. So we came from that church. And the trajectory of that church, I could tell in the future in the League of medical and law, music, entertainment business, having to be around these great people who are servants of God. But then at the same time, in their industry, they be deacon, and then they'll own a car shop or they'll play for a band or the maestro. You know, they're a teacher. You know, it's like, it's not like it was to be said. My mother, of course, I maybe, maybe made her a little disappointed by not being a pastor or not being a lawyer or not being a nurse. But you know what, though? There were some hard times that fell upon us on 2007 and eight. Remember those days?

[00:11:32 - 00:11:33]
Oh, yeah.

[00:11:33 - 00:12:51]
Okay. During that time, you know, just to fast forward, after I went, you know, from college, I came home, I was gigging, and I was making a substantial amount of money to help to contribute because I lived with my mom and my brother at the time. So it just made me realize the sense of pride that I knew outside of what was asked for me to do. Because my mother was a missionary, she went to Haiti to, you know, give back, and she was a nurse. That was always part of our life to give back, you know, do clothing drives, and it's just part of our lifestyle. It's not something was asked for me to do. It was just something that my mother did. My dad, even before there was an Airbnb, he owned some property, and Haitians that came over, even some other people, you know, Trinidadians. I remember having Trudy ins that lived with us. He would be that connect, you know, if you moved into New York, he got an apartment available. So I saw those examples through my. My family, through my mother and my dad. Unfortunately, you know, they weren't together. My dad was not a believer. You know, he. He had other lifestyles, but I saw the examples through my brothers, my sister, and all the brethren in my community. So I had. I was left with no excuse, you know.

[00:12:51 - 00:13:14]
Now, that's some powerful thoughts right there that you just gave in terms of, number one, I going back to what you just said about people seeing people who are doing both, who were a teacher and this and that. You didn't see, like, a line between it and, of course, you know, this is God and gigs. Right? So you. You mentioned church without a second thought. I love the fact that these lines were not kind of creating any kind of silos for you. So.

[00:13:14 - 00:13:15]
Right.

[00:13:15 - 00:13:39]
I'm leading with this question, but I think I'm right. It makes sense that you said after you came back and you were gigging, you got to the music lifestyle. I'm guessing you never saw any line between, I'm a musician and I'm an entrepreneur. I got to create a brand. I've got to create this thing. I got to be good at my instrument, but I also got to be in business. Like, it sounds like that was never an issue.

[00:13:39 - 00:14:40]
No. You know, I have to actually bring this up. Pastor Thomas, he passed away. Rest in peace. A lot of people don't know, from the church, from french speaking baptist church. He was in Wall street. He was one of few black men in Wall street, okay? They bought that church from a jewish synagogue. I remember speaking to him when I was young. He said, remember taking care of your business. You know, serve God, but make sure, you know, business be fair. And I remember him saying that he was talking about us in terms of, I remember we had a basketball team in church. He was like, yo, take care of business, you know, serve the Lord, but don't come back, you know, don't come back without a trophy. Like, really work hard. And I remember. Cause I look at his lifestyle, I only spoke to him, like, maybe five times in my life, and I re realized, wow, like, this dude was in Wall street back in the late sixties. Haitian man in Wall street helped, bought a big synagogue. So I had success already, you know what I'm saying?

[00:14:40 - 00:14:41]
Examples.

[00:14:41 - 00:16:01]
Yeah, examples. And then to my life, people don't realize in the word music business, what's the longer word business? It doesn't mean music talent. It doesn't mean music savantism, music business, okay? So I learned that I'm very thankful that my older brother, you know, he actually did middle brother, but he's older to me. He told me the business because, you know, he built the shows. He was the talent. And this is, you know, he had the band. I was the MD of the band. So understanding, that was what I can do by watching and being. It took me too long to understand, okay? Having the skill of music was just a byproduct of curiosity in my household. I picked up the camera. I knew how to use the camera. I knew to edit. So either you book me as a live musician, or you book me as a photographer or a videographer. And sometimes I'll do all three at one time, you know, I hired my friend to do the b roll, and then I have the camera, like, on a big tripod above the audience head to do the whole wide shot, and I edit, and boom, I double dip. A lot of people don't realize they did that in New York, you know, but you have to be entrepreneurial. You had to.

[00:16:02 - 00:16:26]
I gotta, like, just jump in there, brother. You just mentioned all the things. You're one of those people that could do all the things, right? So first I want to know, I went two different directions. I'm going to go this one first. What time period were you doing when you first started doing? You said, hey, I could. I can be video. I could do the music. Like, what was this before? Or after the big social media Internet boom.

[00:16:27 - 00:16:40]
Okay, check this out. I think it really officially started for me when it was a MySpace. So a little story. MySpace, I'm dating myself.

[00:16:40 - 00:16:43]
No, I want the date. I want people to see that this is not new.

[00:16:43 - 00:19:01]
Yes, this is not new. So back in 2005, 2006, I was on MySpace and one of the few brothers I added on MySpace, believe it or not. And the reason why I even got into Brooklyn Tab, my brother, Elliot Gunye, he. I'd known him since I was very young. Cause he was one of the cool guitar players. And he stood up because he had a finished strap that looked like Jimi Hendrix and he had dreads. At the time, I was like, oh, I remember him. So I added him on MySpace and we kept in contact. And MySpace before Facebook at the time, you had message boards, you had chat rooms, and all these things I use as a way to network, keep a contact with, you know, people that I remember when I was younger, when I saw growing up, because my brother, when I was older, he actually, at some point he had his own gospel group. And I remember now thinking about it, when he was young, he snuck into Hezekiah Walker's sheds and he'll carry his cassette tape. He'll record it after he still had the recording today on cassette tape. And funny enough, you know, my brother Jamer, his name is Jamir. What was name Miss Walker? Well, was she was a walker, but she was his choir director in school, went to Canarsie High School. So the connection was went to check out the sheds. And then later when he had his own band, he had some of the musicians there. So I was exposed to all those musicians, you know what I'm saying? Before I even knew who they were. But I had them on Facebook and Instagram. Like, they're big time musicians. So I was like, wow. I was exposed to that. I think when it came down to the business sense of really understanding the social media was connecting the people that I was familiar with. And I was able to network by posting photos, commenting, making sure the page looked good. And then eventually I left. At the time, I went to Liberty University, it was an evangelical school, and it's really cool in Virginia. I left after Jerry's senior passed and I was like, man, I got to find something to do. I moved with my family, my mom and my brother, and my brother started a band. And at that time, MySpace was really popping off. 2007, eight. Okay, the crash happened at eight, right?

[00:19:02 - 00:19:03]
Yeah, right? Yeah.

[00:19:03 - 00:19:30]
Now, crazy thing, around that time, my brother was working at MTV Viacom. He was working in the mail room and then he did some work with them. So I met a lot of the people who used to work for BP Diddy and all these Nickelodeon folks. And actually because of my brother, and this is the first time he's sharing this, you know, Amanda, I know her as Amanda Diva, but she goes by her real name is Amanda Sealy.

[00:19:30 - 00:19:32]
Yeah, seals. Yeah, seals, yeah.

[00:19:32 - 00:21:33]
She actually threw my brother because I think Amanda was working at XM or I think Nicknaudian, I don't know. But my brother got me my first gig playing with her. Like my first industry gig. Yeah. And that gig opened a lot more doors for me. Cause I met DW, who's on bass, Basil on keys, Larry peoples, you know, on drums, you know, Jamal peoples and Larry peoples, they toured with Herbie Hancock and younger when it was like in high school. Like, these are the people that I'm around, you know what I'm saying? So the business aspect was being able to identify the issue because I've noticed a lot of these shows and shout out to Amanda Silas because she's getting a lot of hate right now. But I have to tell you, if this goes up on podcast, she gave me an opportunity to play for her. You know, I'm saying, like she just got off tour with floetry, you know, I'm saying, and I'm some Joe schmo guitar player up and coming, you know, that was my first like industry gig with her. And that opened a lot more doors for me because I saw how she was running a tight ship doing these open mics at the SOb's like live music, art, painting. And she, she did it all and I noticed it. And then I networked with the musicians. So the business aspect I realized when I was doing these shows, there was not too many videographers. And I kept the mental notes like, man, I wish I had this on camera because I, you know, I play with so many artists and I just don't have no documentation unless someone posts it. But I found some circulation. So later to find out later, of course, you know, this financial crisis happened and I was, I was short on gigs, on pseudo gigs. So I was like, you know what, let me do some promo gigs, which is you work as an independent contractor. And I got into marketing and happened to know a little bit about the camera. Out of curiosity. I just went with it around wherever I go just in case something happened. Because, you know, New York, you find celebrities. So get this, I started working with Metro PCs, right?

[00:21:33 - 00:21:33]
Okay.

[00:21:33 - 00:22:39]
Within the first month I was a brand ambassador. And then the second month, they realized out of cameras, oh, can you take some photos? I took photos, but then I also took videos. I have a video, old video I could send you a link to. I did. It's very pixelated, but the fact that I did videos and I did editing, this is before short form content. You know what I'm saying? It's on YouTube. So I did a little like, not like guerrilla marketing, but kind of like reaction video type. You know, people going. Getting flyers and you're like, first time reaction videos. Metroplex loved it so much. There's, okay, we're promoting you to be a on site manager. So they get me paid a little more money. I did the photos, I did the videos, I did recaps. And then all of a sudden, and this is again, 20, um, 910 1112. Like, on that time, I was getting paid just to go to these events. And of course that opened doors for me to then, like, out of my ignorance. This is before I even knew who this is. This is how, you know I was very much cultured in the church.

[00:22:39 - 00:22:40]
Okay.

[00:22:40 - 00:22:46]
I didn't know who Rick was. I didn't know who. Mister international. Who's mister international?

[00:22:46 - 00:22:47]
Pitbull.

[00:22:47 - 00:24:51]
Pit bull. Yeah. Okay. So I get a big fat wd hard drive sent to my house second day. And Metropcs called me, was like, hey, we need you to clean up this artist named fuego. This is some dominican artist, Bachata. So I do their editing because they want me to help him get on tour with Metro PCs. And this is when I'm like, at Baruch college because I'm going to matriculate my math classes and whatever. So I go to the computer lab and I bring my hard drive. And this is Rick Ross is in the video. I have all these raw footage of him. Like, I didn't. Yo, this is how ignorant I was, bro. I just. I was so much into gospel. I was into jazz. I wasn't listening to hip hop at the time. If it wasn't J. D, if it wasn't. If it wasn't Eric Badu, if it wasn't tribe, if it wasn't Lauryn Hill or Wycliffe, I was not listening to it. So I get a hard drive with, like, pitbull and you know, all these people and I'm like, I think nothing about it. They paid me, you know, good money. It's on my Vimeo. I'll send you that link. And that opened door for me to understand. Wow. I just did. I was a marketing specialist. I didn't go for school for it. So again, I'm still gigging at church at Brooklyn Tab. But that didn't make enough money for me to live. Cause obviously it's the financial crisis. I had to gig more. So the trajectory of understanding, okay, I'm a musician, or I could do media, you know, press kits and stuff. Metropcs helped me get the opportunity to work with these major artists doing their electronic press kit to make extra money. Not knowing at that time, but knowing now, of course, and then still doing music. So that made me understood. Wow, there is money to be made as a musician. Not to really play music, but to display and create short stories around other musicians. Yeah, that's kind of opened my door to work with artists, you know, in the studio and, like, a whole bunch of other situations that came from just of me having a camera and my guitar, you know.

[00:24:51 - 00:25:34]
Unbelievable. I gotta tell you right now. Now, you mentioned Brooklyn tab out of, like. Just like, out of, like, a couple of times. And then you said that the fact that you were working outside, still making a living in these other ways while working in church, now, again, that's something that hits a lot of us right home. Me personally, I didn't. I just talked about with this, with my worship leader. I didn't start doing that till around same time you're talking about. We're talking about 2010 or so, right? So God engaged with. It started around 2000, 920, ten. So tell me a little bit about that experience. You said you were so churchy, but there's a reason why you're able to survive outside the church is because you learned all the lessons inside the church. So was it. Was that Brooklyn tab experience? Like, that was a huge. That's a huge influence on, like, on gospel and on church in general.

[00:25:34 - 00:25:35]
Yeah.

[00:25:35 - 00:25:38]
So how was that influencing you?

[00:25:38 - 00:26:21]
Yo, so get this. This is all God again. Shout out to Elliot Guillemay. He's the one who got me the audition to. Was it Jason Webb? He's now one of the big, you know, music directors for Broadway, but he was the one who auditioned me. I was. I was so nervous, like, okay, you know, I got that. And then that opened so much opportunities on that end because obviously a lot of artists come to visit Brook and Sam. I didn't play for the choir a lot. I played for Tuesday nights. I play for. Actually, I play for the choir quite often, but not for the recordings, just for, like, you know, when he's on tour, I go play across the street. But I was mainly hired to go, you know, help the youth service. And I'm telling you, a lot of people don't really talk about Brooklyn tab kids. Bt kids.

[00:26:21 - 00:26:25]
Like, I remember bt kids. We did a couple of things for them back in my old youth choir.

[00:26:25 - 00:27:01]
I remember them killing, yo, this is before. This is before young and free young life like this before Hillsong, you know, like, yo, I remember. Was it Brian Clark, David Hunter, Susan Petry? Amy? It was me. I was playing guitar, and it was Antonio, who's another guitar player, man. So that opened a lot more doors for me because I saw how, like, youth ministry was so important because not just the music, but the discipleship aspect, because from 2009 to 2016, I seen these kids literally grow and get married. You know what I'm saying?

[00:27:01 - 00:27:01]
Right.

[00:27:02 - 00:29:39]
It makes me emotional because it's a big church, but what people don't realize, it's conceptualized around groups and in terms of ministering groups. So I didn't really feel like it was a big church, but I felt, like, so interconnected because I worked at Metropcs. So I remember, oh, this person serving usher team, so I'd see everybody every day. So it wasn't like, you know, taboo to say hello or whatever in the train, and, oh, this the kid, you know, accepted Christ, you know, stuff like that. So it was a daily thing to see that I was part of a big ecosystem. But then on top of that, even the members itself, the musicians itself, we were really tight outside of music. We'll, you know, play basketball or, like, we'll go, you know, bowling or whatever, I'm saying. So the chemistry was there outside of playing at church. So the mindset of the business, really, it opened my mind a whole lot more when I was more integrated into, not the children's ministry, but, like, when we used to play at the service and how they record the choir and then shout out to Ray James. I remember, you know, growing up with him, he did mixing a lot for beats kids, and now he's doing a lot of, you know, booker tabs, recording, mixing, mastering, whatever. But, like, I remember when he was in college, he said, I used to meet with him and do his projects and understand the recording process and all these things. So it's like I saw all the behind the scenes while I was kind of, like, figuring out as, like, a session session guitarist and working with these people. And then on top of that, you know, doing spot gigs here and there, whether I was playing guitar or I was, like, doing media press kits and, you know, I guess I'm going in a tangent, but even during that time, while I was working at Metro BC's, John Jay, he was from my college, he went to college with me, he moved to New York, he worked at Guitar center and then developed a music management company, which then I did also some video editing and shooting. So working with those labels like Def Jam and Tommy Boy and stuff, like doing press kits and artist development and things like those little things that now people are not really kind of like outsourcing, they're doing it more themselves and, like, being a content creator, like, I feel like I've been doing that helping other artists since 2000, like nine and ten, you know what I'm saying? So that's a really important factor, then applying that into my repertoire, which then we could talk more into that, you know, having the opportunity to document and share stories.

[00:29:39 - 00:30:27]
Well, that's exactly where I was gonna go because of all that incredible lesson that you've had, the history that you've had lessons. I was going to immediately go to, number one, your transition now to where you are now because you mentioned liberty, now you're in Lynchburg, and that's got to be a big change. And then the second half of that is where did you apply all these lessons? Like, how are you helping people now to take what you learned? Like, what's your message to creatives now? Because this is 2024 now. You know what I mean? Like, we're dealing with so many new issues, but yet I know a lot of them apply to the things you learned back at measure PCs at Brooklyn Tab. Like, so what's your message and what's your overall? I would say if I had to make you pick one thing, like, what's the big thing feeding, like, what you're trying to help creatives and musicians, like, now in your new season?

[00:30:27 - 00:32:36]
That's a great question. You know, I realize all the opportunities that I've got was because of my curiosity. I didn't have the skills to edit. I just went to the computer lab at Baruch College and just, like, daddled around garageband and imovie and then it made it look good, looked on YouTube. I feel like if you're like me and you know that maybe because it's my new divergence, I just hyper focus so quickly and as a survivor trait to learn something quickly because I. It compensates the amount of knowledge that I have, that I've been able to build a repertoire that I don't have a degree in what I did. But obviously, I went on to get, you know, my certificate in it. But learning video editing, mixing, mastering, all this, I didn't go to school for that. I learned under the masters. Like, I mean, I learned with people who got grammys. Why would I go to school for that? You know, like, while I was. A little quick story. Before Puff daddy closed, daddy's was daddy House's studio. There's an engineer by the name of Steve Dickey. Shout out to him. He showed me for the first time how he hybrid connect the SSL board to his digital inbox to record high quality audio. You know, doing that hybrid, analog, digital thing. He was one of the few engine I saw do that at the time. And little did he know that even though he was using pro tools, I was learning so much. Cause I was a video guy. I was. I was video cameraing the, you know, I was kind of doing b roll for an artist I was working with. And he booked out the studios for a while. So he was showing me some tricks that I still use today. I have a good photographic memory because it's, again, it's a survival trait and it's relevant. And I feel like if you are curious and you are just remotely interested, you best to believe that the areas of your interest, of your curiosity could be the skills that you can master. Because either you master it for yourself or you master it to kind of have it in a bag for someone else to use. Because those opportunities made me jobless. You know what I'm saying?

[00:32:38 - 00:32:47]
Now, I want you to fix that real quick, because you said, I feel like we said, I feel like you said jobless, but I feel like you never need to be without a job.

[00:32:48 - 00:32:48]
Right.

[00:32:48 - 00:33:28]
And, but here's the other part. I just realized, even as you said it, it also means you work for people, and at the same time, you never have to work for people. It's like you're consistently in a position because of that curiosity that you're always creating your own market, your own new company, your own new lane. And so you're never liking competition for people because there's so much about this music and creative life that everyone's, like, trying to get to the top. Meanwhile, it seems like you kept making a lane where there wasn't a, you know, there wasn't a position, but, but they gave you a position in metro because you made it, like, you made it possible for that thing.

[00:33:28 - 00:33:57]
Yeah. So what's people don't realize, again, I can't speak for everybody else because my brain is totally different. I just know if someone asked me, hey, can you do something? Maybe it's the haitian mentality. If someone asks me to do something, I'm not just gonna do that. I'm gonna make sure it's packaged well. That someone who does it after me, they can't be. They can't compare it to how I do it. Yeah, out doing and good, I guess. Outdoing and good.

[00:33:57 - 00:34:34]
No, that's excellent. When you're striving for excellence, you never. I think, see, this is where I have to be careful, because I feel like I already know your heart in this. Right? When you start, you just start to say that you almost apologize. In a sense, what I think you're saying is, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you're not striving for excellence to be anyone but your own standard, like, because the fact that no one else can do it that way is not because you're trying to show it up. You're just saying, hey, this is the level that I will always aim for. And hopefully, more people start to aim for it. Hopefully.

[00:34:34 - 00:36:18]
But until these dudes starts at home, though. It starts at home. It starts with grandma. When he sees a person homeless, she just not only gives her a plate of food, but gives homeless socks and a metro card, you know what I'm saying? To be on their way. Like you people don't think that. You just don't serve the need of the person for what they need. Now you got to serve for the purpose of understanding that that person is a human being. You know, you could. You could. There's a difference between fulfilling a need of what you. Your hierarchy needs, I guess, you know, psychology, but then you also have to be identified within that need. You're also human. That there's needs that can be met, that can help you get along the way, that could help you, you know, because there's one thing you need to give people a sense of dignity is, like, when you give this a crutch where you could give somebody something, but they don't have the dignity to kind of search and do it for themselves. So when you're giving something, like, for example, if someone tells me, yo, can you do a video edit? And whatever, blaze blah. But then I'm realizing, okay, I'm not just doing a video edit. I'm also helping them make sure that they're at the best light and whatever. And I look at other problems that I realized, oh, okay, do video. Oh, do they have music? Oh, I can make the music. So it's like, I make the original music. I'm doing this, I'm doing edit. I'm doing a little thing, you know, whatever, and I send it to them. It's like, oh, this is nice music. I did that. Oh, that whole puts an opportunity for myself, not saying that I wanted to do it. I did it because there's. There's a lack of awareness, you know, so the whole goal of being curious is literally being hyper aware of that. Okay. What are they giving you? Or what are things that they're not saying that they probably need? And that's my. I guess that's kind of like the trajectory of my career, you know what I'm saying?

[00:36:18 - 00:37:30]
But it's a superpower in terms of. That's what. Number one, let's go right back to the spiritual part of it. Jesus says, go the extra mile. He said, always try to outdo each other in love. All of these things are not just entrepreneurial or creative. They're also the way you're supposed to treat people. As a Christian, we're supposed to look beyond our own needs and look to the needs of others. Right. So you're already exposing that. But then the second half. Yeah. Is it an absolutely effective marketing tool and effective way to build relationships? 100%. Because those people are always going to call you back if you go the extra mile, if you see that, if you're paying attention. And this is one thing I've said to several other amazing producers that have been on the show, that, like you, that's the job of an engineer and a producer, is to hear things and see beyond where you're at right now and to kind of create this so you even, I'm sure, do that musically. And I want to quickly get to this because I know we're going to run out of time. We're going to have so many things to talk about, even in terms of what you do with movies and your syncing and all that other stuff. Like, that's a whole nother level of paying attention to detail. Talk a little bit about that side of your career. Just this whole thing of making music and getting placements. I mean, that's the thing I have never jumped into, really.

[00:37:30 - 00:37:31]
Okay.

[00:37:31 - 00:37:40]
It is a huge, like, to me, it just speaks again to where your brain goes, where you were able to be an asset of something that a lot of people don't even pay attention to.

[00:37:40 - 00:39:07]
So get this. A lot of people ask me, how did I get my first sync opportunity? It was by accident, actually. The website I'm just call straight at. There's some websites back in 2010, 1112, they're kind of fishy. They're kind of, like, scammy looking. Like, like, modern beats and all these other places. Well, I lucked out because during the time, a friend of mine, ngozi, he was an amazing r and b producer. He produced something for, I think, Mac wild. And, like, he was actually. He got the full scholarship to be at the NYU. The NYU program, the music program. So he was one of those recipients for it. So he is the dude that I went to to collab and, like, learn more of that, because to kind of backpedal. When I started making music, it was not gospel music. Like, as a producer. I started as an EDM producer, so I did a lot more dance music. That's a whole different conversation. But basically everybody in my church doing gospel, hip hop, r and b, whatever. But I was like, I'm gonna go this way. So I did a lot more music that's for, like, dJ's. So while I was doing these video edits, you could see that I'm like, I'm making my own music in the actual. Because they don't, like, when someone asked me to, like, video edit and they don't give me music, you're giving me the permission to put my music in it.

[00:39:07 - 00:39:11]
Got it. Great strategy.

[00:39:11 - 00:40:51]
The clients love it, and they save money, and I could, you know, charge extra. So what's cool is that every opportunity that's not been said, it's an opportunity itself. So when it comes down to creating something that no one else is doing, not literally not doing the music itself, but I know that my brother's r and b, hip hop, soul, my mother's gospel. My brother does some classical and jazz and stuff. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna do edm. And I love dance music. You know what I'm saying? So Edm, in terms of, like, at the time, David Gooda was on a, you know, up and up, like major laser. You got Tesco and that stuff. So I think when it started for me was when I was doing these beat battles in New York. When you in hip hop, I actually was doing, like, edm. It was like, you know, hip hop. But, like, really, it was interesting because the approach of how I made the music didn't reflect. And this is another thing, it didn't reflect on how I would look, because I would be some guy. Okay? He probably does hip hop. Like, whoa. The guy just did a dubstep beat. Whoa. You know what I'm saying? So, like, you can't really get judged wrongful because they don't understand the genre, but they understand that them drums are smacking. It sounds great, you know what I'm saying? And that opened up a lot of opportunities for me to get placements. And my first placement was with the Kardashian show at the same time that I got this Adidas placement for Jeremy Scott when he released the money, wings, shoes, whatever, which was amazing. And I still get paid for that Kardashian show because it happened to be Kylie Jenner's sweet 16th birthday. So that was a whole minute and 30, you know.

[00:40:51 - 00:40:52]
Wow.

[00:40:52 - 00:42:28]
So that opened doors for me. And then again, that was not scoring music. Sync licensing is different than scoring composing, because when you submit for music to get placed, you have to give the music to the publisher. And that's what happened to me. I won so many of these online beat battles. They was like, here. Here's the publisher from Atlanta, you know, cutting it. Those intro me, and from there, it just went up, you know, I'm saying. And I was very thankful to do that. And then now you said composing. That actually happened through being connected to a nonprofit. A lot of people don't know, obviously, you know, being in New York, there's difficulties getting connected with broadcast publications without representation. So I happened to go through the back door, pause through helping this organization who helped kids from the Bronx film teach them and develop scripts and all this. I knew Louis Severa. He's from high school. He was in that program. So when Spider man two came out, Andrew Garfield, what he was involved with? He was actually involved with an organization in Haiti. He was doing a whole thing. Yeah, he was doing fundraising for worldwide orphans, which was an orphanage in Haiti. So guess what? My friend was like, oh, my friend is haitian. He'll do it. I'm like, okay. I never did scoring before. Never did. Who was the. Who was the. Who's the composer of Spider man two? Hans Zimmer, right?

[00:42:29 - 00:42:30]
I think so, yeah.

[00:42:30 - 00:43:35]
He was supposed to be doing that prior to me. So my friend spoke to Andrew Garfield. Yeah, Andrew Garfield. I met Andrew. He's amazing. Beautiful soul. Spoke to him. Andrew went to Sony and, you know, and Marvel. And then a day later, they sent me an email, okay, we wanted to sound like this. So I had no prior experience of scoring, and I stayed up 72 hours, up three drafts later, and they loved it. So it just made me realize that's how new it was. God. Because how would I have known that this guy is doing work in my motherland? And they, oh, there's a haitian composer. I'm like, okay. I never did any scoring before. They gave me an opportunity, and that's like, my major first major placement. You know, I'm saying, that's in his own. A dvd. If you get to Spider man two, the first PSA, that's before the Sony emblem. That's. That's what I scored. And that's, like, impactful, because people think that I didn't get paid for that, by the way. It was through a nonprofit.

[00:43:35 - 00:43:43]
But, yeah, I was gonna say your payment is way beyond what any check would be when it comes to that kind of access.

[00:43:44 - 00:45:17]
Like, to bump. To bump Hans Zimmer from doing something he does. No name, haitian composer producer from Brooklyn. I'll take that. I called audio animals at the time and was crazy when I called them. I didn't have the money. I was like, yo, and what's crazy about that? A month later, when they did a press release in the UK, the fact that they did that, they did Spider man, they did Fortnite. They did. They did every big Hollywood trailer because they do mixing, and they do a lot of mastering and mixing and adobe atmos. I know these guys for 1213 years. Like, they blew up, too. So it was not just me. I felt like going back to your point, when you aligned with something so direct, like, God could bless you by your obedience if you just try. Because people. Some people don't take gigs because it's free. Like, oh, I am paid. If I had said no, if I had said no, would I be in the same position? No, I would not. I was like, okay, I'll give it a try. They said yes. And guess what? From my yes. Another company is thriving and is doing well in UK and other people who are. Who I helped represent, because, again, everyone. It was everyone's first time as a composer. For my first time, your job is to make everyone sound good and look good. So I couldn't imagine all the opportunities that happen to everyone else. But I could just say that your. Your obedience, even in the uncomfort of, like, saying yes to a free gig, you never know who you would be blessing. You know what I'm saying? So that's kind of like what I learned.

[00:45:17 - 00:46:10]
Oh, okay. There's too many lessons for this. We got it. We gotta start to wrap this up because we got absorb all that you just dropped in these last 30 to 40 minutes. But I do want to get to this real quick because you are a family man. All this that you talked about, all the accolades, all the working with amazing names, I know that they all come back to who you are as a man, as a father. And so just quickly talk about just now that you're in again, like I talk. I got the chance to be in Lyczburg. Didn't get a chance to connect with you at the time, but that town just feels like home. It just feels like a place. You've now taken yourself out of the hustle and bustle of Brooklyn, and now you're in the beautiful mountains of Virginia. So talk a little bit about why all this lifestyle, everything you're doing, what you want to contribute to your family, because clearly there's a reason why you're doing all this. And it must be for, yes, my.

[00:46:10 - 00:50:55]
Wife could contest that there's method to my madness and I love her for that. And she has to get all the credit because what. And I remind all my people when I go to these gigs and when I do events and, you know, she stay at home, she's with the kids. God allowed her in the season that we're in to do that. And I'm not rich, I'm not wealthy, but God's wealth is bigger than mine's. That's just that. And he's able to provide so much beyond my bank account with the love of the church, the very person that we even got the house from, you know, who's now in Israel, you know, I'm praying for them. Um, like, everyone's obedience is accumulation of the success for someone else. And my obedience to come to Lynchburg happened was, it was a year before I met my wife and again I met Brigante. It's like my 9th going 10th year. I felt like, not burdened or like depressed. I just felt like there's something more. And I kept in contact with my friends down in Virginia, Joanza, and, you know, my best man James, and connected with Keith, who's an amazing musician also. He's a producer for one of the Magnolia networks. He's an amazing producer of film and musician. I reconnected with all my friends and just spoke with them and I was like, you know what? I don't feel like staying in New York. And this is like, right at the cusp of like, while gentrification is happening. Heavy. So I had an exit strategy. I was like, I have to, you know, I have to find a way to leave New York. And it just so happened that my wife we, you know, reconnected, you know, so she was my sister, dormant at school. I've had a little crush on her. But I never went on it because obviously I was. I was too full of myself, playing guitar, being a little turtle, you know. It just so happened that she came up New York. She visited her. My wife, she's Park Cuban. Her cuban cousin lives in New York, in the city. So we connected, and she's lived in Lynchburg. I was like, man, this don't feel right. So pursued her every month, every single month, clockwork, I would go visit Virginia, you know, I would go down here, and because her birthday is in January and my birthday is in February, you know, so it goes to say that I felt that there was something more. And I knew Lynchburg was on a cusp of diversifying downtown, and everything was in position to even my position right now. My friends that were there, they're now at the bigger position because of what they were able to do. And now they're pulling me in. I'm an artist resident for the academy downtown. The academy is kind of like the Jefferson in DC or, like, you know, Carnegie hall, but it's in the Lynchburg. So I'm able to represent this, you know, our institution and do what I do, what I love, and help the schools and the community. So it's all based off of obedience. I felt like I needed to go, you know what I'm saying? I was 29, 30, and I was like, I just need a change. And all those things that I wrote, I'm writing online is because it's a combination of obedience and marriage is one of those. Obedience, too. I didn't want to live a. I didn't want to live a ratchet life. I wasn't really horrible, but I just say, yeah, I made some bad decisions in terms of my. My choices of, you know, mates. So, you know, we all been there. But I feel like God's obedience to, like, his wanting us to obey the word by understanding, like, even for the things I supposed to and I don't do and counting as sin as far as, like, sin meaning being out of the target, being outside of the focus. I felt like if I didn't come here, I don't really think that I would be in the will of God. It sounds weird. It sounds weird saying that. I don't think I would be in the will of God if I didn't say if I stayed in New York. I don't think it was God's will for me to stay. Let's just say like, that I had to go. I had to grow. I have to take my debt. I have to take whatever I got, you know, I had to learn how to drive a car. I had to learn how to, you know, live with a woman. Yo, take care of my wife, learn my trauma, because now I'm a dad. You know what I'm saying? All these things to grow.

[00:50:57 - 00:51:04]
All these lessons, man. Talk about the lessons of marriage and fatherhood. Forget all the other music stuff, man. Just.

[00:51:04 - 00:51:04]
Just.

[00:51:04 - 00:51:16]
That is a lifelong journey, as you know. And I want to quickly go to what you just mentioned about obedience, because that's really been, like, the theme, that obedience and curiosity. Excuse me. Make sure I clear this up for a clear.

[00:51:17 - 00:51:18]
Yeah.

[00:51:18 - 00:51:32]
The obedience and the curiosity of it all. There's my favorite psalm, which is psalm 25 and ten, which is all the paths of the Lord are full of mercy and truth for those who keep his commandments.

[00:51:32 - 00:51:33]
Yes.

[00:51:33 - 00:52:23]
And I see in your life, man, the past, the incredible past, and all the different diverse things you're able to do have all been because you've kept disobedience. This ability to say, yes, yes, yes. And just say yes to it and not question and not say, why, why, why? And so for anybody that's watching right now, as we close this off, anyone that's listening is who is where you were, put them back in that spot. Back in when you were first coming up, that first opportunity you had where you weren't sure, put them back where you were. What would you tell that one person who's about to make a decision to become a videographer, to try to do this music thing, to move out of, take this big risk, just help them out? What would you tell yourself at the position that you were at that same pivot point?

[00:52:23 - 00:54:14]
I thought about it. God's timing is perfect. I thought about, like, man, I wish I came down sooner, but you know what I feel like for those who's watching this, if you are a father, I'm speaking to the fathers now. I feel like I spoke to them fathers. You know, you may be an amazing musician at your church, but you have, you know, you have a quirk or skill set that if others saw that you had, they would think of you differently. That's supposed to be something you should lean in more. You know, you might have a skill that you may say, oh, man, this is something I just like to do for fun. Maybe you have collectibles. I don't know, something that it has some of a monetizable value that can serve a purpose for a culture or for a niche or for an idea. You need to lean in to know what that entails, but. And everything that you're doing within the industry that you're going to be in, whether it's music, whether it's technology, which I'm in. Learn how to share your story. Don't be afraid to share your story. It could be raw as going on live and posting it. You need to document your story, man. It's so important because if you don't know how to share your story, someone else going to share it and they got to leave out the details. So I would recommend you just, you know, share your story, but then at the same time, don't be afraid to invite people in that because you wouldn't realize how much grace other people could show you that you don't show yourself. So the biggest competition to kind of go back to what you're saying, the biggest competition that you're gonna have is the level of contentment that you have of yourself. By what I mean is you are in competition of your. Of your contentment, of yourself. You know, I'm saying how content you are.

[00:54:14 - 00:54:15]
Yeah.

[00:54:15 - 00:54:44]
You know, I'm saying, like, you're in competition of your intention. You're in competition of your curiosity. Are you gonna go at what your crazy idea is? Are you just gonna leave it to yourself and just throw it by the wayside? You're in competition of what you do not do. You know, I'm saying, because your future self was gonna be like, wow, I. I'm thankful I did it and I failed, and I know it would do better. Or, wow, I'm doing so well at this. So you're in competition of your ideas. You know what I'm saying?

[00:54:45 - 00:54:48]
I want to add one more. You're in competition with your complacency.

[00:54:48 - 00:54:50]
Complacency. There you go. You got the word.

[00:54:51 - 00:55:09]
I'm telling you. Hey, yo. We're going to have. We're going to have to do this in a whole nother situation with the workshop. Get some more of your wisdom to people in some specific areas. You have so many things you can speak into, but right now, if they want to connect with you and learn more about you and from you, how do they do that? Tell them how to do it if they're writing it down, where links to.

[00:55:09 - 00:57:21]
Go for you can email me directly. Phineas Robert Phin. Two e's, one srobert at Gmail. Or you could connect with me on Instagram. Finestro. P h I n. Estro. You know, finaster. Like, you know, that's the handle. And then I'm easy to just hit me up. I'm really readily available in terms of to have a conversation or email me. But just for those who also want to talk to those who are getting married or who are considering entrepreneurship, definitely get your financials in check. What I say that is, understand that entrepreneurship is a trial and error. So, of course, still having. I have no. I have a high respect for people who does a nine to five and still does this because it's really difficult and raging kids and stuff like that, because it's not a dream. It's like you want to escape. The goal for entrepreneurship is to really allocate the funds of time back to yourself. Even if you're working a lot, you're not working completely outside the home. So the goal, my lofty dream, is, obviously, to have that allocated budgeted time back in the home that I'm betting more myself and making as much or more being in the home or working with my family than outside, because that's how a lot of problems happen. You know, that's a whole different conversation. But don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to have those conversations. Well, babe, you're making. You're not making enough as me. Maybe stay home, be with me. I don't know. Whatever. The conversations kind of offset time. Time is a big commodity, and I'm still learning that in my neurodivergence, in my whole braid. But time is the biggest currency than money. If you can efficiently learn about time, do that, and that's gonna be helpful to making those right decisions and conquering the battle against yourself. It's not about the person next door or the person who got the more gear or more, or the more experience or the more degrees. It's the person that you're living in. Your skin is the person that you're in competition with.

[00:57:21 - 00:57:29]
You know, beautiful, man cannot wait to do this again. But for now, brother, thank you so much for being a part of this show. You are an amazing brother.

[00:57:30 - 00:57:30]
Thank you.

[00:57:30 - 00:57:33]
God bless you. Thank you for having me beyond the gotten gig show, my friend.

[00:57:34 - 00:57:35]
All right. Thank you, man.

[00:57:42 - 01:62:15]
My friends, I cannot tell you how inspired I am by Phineas authenticity and his desire to just help people. You heard him say it himself, from his culture to the way that he sees this creative community, to the way that he has just opened himself up to new experiences. This is what we aspire to at Gottingigigs, to have our hand in all of these things, but yet have the same kind of character and approach and commitment to excellence and to God's. Calling and our families and everything. And I'm telling you, Phineas, honestly, I wish I could have him for every interview. I wish I could have him in every membership workshop. But you're going to have to wait until the next chance we get to talk with him and to have him share with our community, which I guarantee you, if you stay connected with guiding geeks and especially our membership community, you're going to hear more and see more from this amazing brother. Speaking of this, make sure first that you connect with him in all of his socials which are in the show notes right below in the app that you're using right now. I am so glad I can tell you about this new feature that has just been added to our God and gigs show, and that is a text line. You can respond to this show simply by tapping that button in the description where it says, send this text to leave us a message or to connect with us. And it will automatically open up an app on your phone, whatever your messaging app or text app is. And you can immediately send us your thoughts, your review, your question, or even some ideas for new shows or topics that you'd like us to cover. I love this feature. I would love to hear what you have to say. So check that out right now. After you hear this, scroll down, find that number and try sending us a text. And then I can respond to you on a future show so that you can see that we are connected through our community. Another way that we connect and share value with each other is through the value for value program, which I am so proud to say. We are one of the pioneering podcasts that do this. So if you're listening on a certain type of app, which we call a modern podcast app, we can still talk about Apple and Spotify. I know those are the big giants, but there are several other apps that are doing way cooler things and are innovating faster in the podcasting world. And I would love for you to check those out. Those are also in the show notes and you can then, with those apps, send a little bit of value through something we call Satoshi's bitcoin, their micropayments. But they make a big difference in the way that we are able to connect with you. You can send messages through those boosts as well. And of course, we don't just want you to send treasure. We also want you to share your time and your talent. Time can be simply by sharing this episode with somebody. And talent, honestly, can be sending in something that you're working on, something that you might want to share with the show in terms of graphics or helping with administration. Any way that you want to share value is welcome here at guiding gigs, but that's why it's so important that you connect with our community. If you heard earlier, if you're listening around the summertime, we're also doing the summer of success, which is a really cool program that we're doing all kinds of ways that you can grow this summer. So I hope you'll take advantage of that if you're listening around the time that we are doing this episode. And most of all, I want you to stay connected with each other as creatives who want to grow the way you want to grow and want to hang around with people who know what you want to know. So check out guiding gigs 360, our membership, our newsletter. We have so many different ways for you to connect, and you can even do so for free by going to guidingigs.com 360 guest that's one of the coolest ways that you can join in our membership because you can hang out for free. Just kick the tires a little bit and then decide if you want to upgrade to one of our programs that actually help you thrive because you get to interact and get the coaching and the resources that you need. My friend, I've been so blessed by this episode. I know you happen to please share it, send it to someone who also wants to create their own lane and be unmistakable as they fulfill God's calling in their creative life. Well, my friends, that's all we have for today. So until next time, continue to become the creative that you were created to be. God bless and I'll see you next episode.